08. The Simple Life

Helen Grossman

Welcome to Class of 03. The podcast that revisits the year 2003 in all the ways, it's shaped our world. I'm your host, Helen Grossman. And this is episode eight, The Simple Life. So this is actually the second episode in our Eat The Rich Sequence. Last episode, I spoke with Hannah Becker about the MTV reality show Rich Girls, which premiered only about a month before the Simple Life came out.

The Simple Life season one premiered on December 2nd 2003 and immediately catapulted Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie from socialite to really like the first bona fide reality TV superstars. The premise of the show was simple. A fish out of water concept that plucked these heiresses out of Beverly Hills, took their credit cards away, took their sidekick phones away and placed them in a small town called Altis Arkansas.

They stayed with the family on a farm and for 30 days for a month and worked numerous jobs around the town so that they could experience real life for a month. And these were their first jobs ever. Supposedly so they, they did everything from work at a dairy farm to a gas station to a livestock auction and perhaps most famously at Sonic, it's not a spoiler to tell you that they were fired from pretty much every job they had on the show.

That was just like part of the gimmick. You'll hear in the show that Nicole Ritchie is really like the star of this show. She's so funny, but Paris Hilton is really the most iconic embodiment of y2k and the simple life. And so by extension, 2003 was her breakout moment. But right before the show premiered a sex tape, Paris had made in 2001 with her then boyfriend leaked on the internet and later that same guy packaged and sold the tape at this critical juncture in her life and in her

career and she was only 22 years old. She was playing this character on the simple wave as privileged and ditzy simultaneously as she's getting super famous from having this show. She, she's becoming even more famous for the sex tape that she had not consented to releasing. This would come to define Paris for decades. And only recently has she really emerged from the grip of the effects of this, the release of this sex tape in her memoir that came out this year, Paris wrote that she

had taken Quaaludes and gotten really drunk before making that tape. There's an article in November 2003 issue of Rolling Stone called Princess Paris by Vanessa Gregorio. And when the sex tape is mentioned, Paris's rep is quoted as saying Paris was nearly unconscious in the video. So this has actually been a consistent explanation for two decades that people just weren't really paying attention to or didn't listen to.

And I'll put a link to this Rolling Stone article, Princess Paris in the show notes. It's a really great read Paris Hilton and the author Vanessa Gregorius go clubbing around the sunset strip. Later in 2013, there is a thought catalog piece that comes out as Paris Hilton was trying to revive her career and her public image, the author of this essay in thought catalog interviews Vanessa Gregorio about this night that she spent with Paris Hilton in 2003, Vanessa Gregorio shared

this theory about where Paris Holton's career went wrong. And she says Paris when they were hanging out was really cool, was funny, dark kind of a tomboy according to Vanessa. And later, this is confirmed in Paris's documentary and her memoir, Paris created this girly girl persona that has nothing to do with the real her. She goes on to say that if Paris had been vulnerable, if she had just been herself a quote gawky, dark girl who likes to dance and smoke weed, she would still be a

huge star. End quote. Who knows if Paris ever would have been afforded the grace of just being herself and still being an icon. The early two thousands as we know, were not that forgiving. So with that in mind, in your own rewatching of the simple life. Look for the glimmers of the real Paris. I'm revisiting the simple life. Season one with my friend and screenwriter, culture writer Kirsten King.

I loved our conversation. We spent a lot of time talking about the United We Stand marquee on at the Sonic Drive in that as a slogan is pretty much 2003 in a nutshell. maybe only second to half price salty anal wieners. So enjoy our conversation and thanks so much for listening.

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Kirsten King

My name is Kirsten King. I am a screenwriter and general culture writer working in Los Angeles in 2003. I was, I think 11 years old. So I was a little baby. But I also remember the year, the moment the cultural conversation happening in 2003. Quite well. It was a big, it was a big year. That was my first bra year. Actually 10 years old. I don't think I definitely didn't need it. I still don't need it.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

But yeah, but at 10, you want it, you want it and you want to learn how to shave your legs.

 

Kirsten King

You want like, yeah, you're going through all that. I was using NARE for the first time in 2003.

 

Helen Grossman

So nare was big enough. It was, it was, there was a whole song, right?

 

Kirsten King

Oh my God. I don't remember the Nare song.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Maybe I'm thinking of it feels like there would be a song for.

 

Kirsten King

Definitely. There has to be a jingle you to like, you know, put chemicals on your skin and burn your hair off. There's got to be a jingle for that.

 

Helen Grossman

The jingle is, there's no cancer in this.

 

Kirsten King

Oh Let your hair fall off naturally. No cancer in this hair.

 

Helen Grossman

So we're talking the simple life today. But before then, like, what are some of your other memories of this year? You were, you know, this is the year when you're 10, you're sort of just starting to really like tend to and you're really starting to define your personal identity around identification and things that you associate with.

 

Kirsten King

This was the year my parents got divorced. It was, I'm pretty sure it was the year my parents got divorced and it was also a great year for obviously, culture, which like you're going to cover on this podcast so much. And I think that in that time of divorce, that was very important for me to just lose myself in these little brainless television shows. And so it was definitely a hard year for me, but also you're a kid and you're figuring out, yeah, you're figuring out who you are.

And I think I didn't to obviously didn't have a defined sense of self. I was also, you know, I'm queer bisexual. And I was figuring that out at that time. I remember that was like one of the years where I had like a crush on this girl who was in my neighborhood and desperately trying to push that down and hide that.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

So, a very big year for me, life wise, you know, it's interesting because like there is also a lot of conversation in 03 around like the rise in divorce rate.

 

Helen Grossman

This is just something I've been thinking about. even the song which is like such a happy go Lucky song is actually about how like no one can, like there's no sort of purpose in keeping relationships together anymore.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Like our parents figured it out, but they're not really happy.

 

Kirsten King

I mean, my mom had my sister and I both when she was like under 25 which is crazy because I think about what I was doing under 25 and I was just a fucking moron. So to think that my mom had us both and then, and then it is in her early thirties at this time and is like asking for, for a divorce and still has like a shit ton of life to live.

So it makes sense because I think a lot of our parents had us pretty young and then reached that point of like still feeling like a young person that wanted to like live and, and be independent from the family obligations

...

 

Helen Grossman

as a segue into the simple life. We, we really got this contrast right? Of like this family, this nuclear family in Arkansas. Altus Arkansas that like a tornado, like the tornado in episode, I think. Seven.

 

Kirsten King

Oh my God. Right.

 

Helen Grossman

Season one Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton just blast on in and shake things up.

 

Kirsten King

Oh, my gosh. And I remember that first episode where they're having their goodbye party at Palin's home and their whole family and friends are gathered and they buy $2000 a $2000 pair of shoes to take to the farm with them. Like it is just such, an excellent snapshot into both, both now and then. And that, like these class divides are still just as prevalent right now as they were then.

But this was like the first time that you got to see that on reality television and it, and it sparked shows like, you know, Joe Billionaire and farmer wants a wife, even the bachelor to, yeah, I think it was a realization that there's such a demographic for, you know, in middle America for, for reality television. And it's interesting for me because as an adult watching it back, like I realized that obviously Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie were playing characters and they were,

you know, they were, they knew what they were doing. It was like a self-aware moment for them in some ways. and they were master masterful at playing those characters. But at the time I didn't, I didn't realize that I took it at base value. I thought they were. I thought Paris Hilton was really blonde and Diy and didn't know what a Walmart was, which maybe she really doesn't know what a Walmart is.

 

Helen Grossman

She claims that she knew what a Walmart was and that, that was just to like, get people talking.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

But my speculation is that she did not know at a Walmart, it seemed, it seemed very genuine.

 

Kirsten King

But I do think that these, this type of comedy laid the groundwork for people like Nathan Fielder and Joe Perra and like people that go into these situations as a character and then the real content is about the people around them. And I grew up like lower middle class. So it's weird to think about this because for me, I was laughing at Paris and Nicole with the family.

I wasn't laughing at the family. And I think depending on where you were on class lines, like you watched the show in a different way. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I think upper middle class people were probably laughing at the letting family. I don't know.

 

Helen Grossman

I mean, I think that's a really interesting point and I, I would love to hear more perspectives on it. It's hard because my memory and I think that like, they were really also like teenagers and young people are going to see the absurdity of these women in this situation and the joke was always about their behavior.

But I, I don't really think that the show frames the, the let, let, I can never remember the name. The letting, I don't think that they frame the letting family as anything other than like an up an upstart, like a good quality, righteous family.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah, they are like, they're like America's bread and butter type of family. There is one scene in that first episode where the grandma is killing a chicken and it's edited almost like an eighties horror movie. And I, like, I won the editing in the show is insane and amazing. And that speaks to that. But that scene is so and you know, I didn't grow up in farmland. I didn't grow up in Arkansas. So I had never seen a chicken be killed or skinned like that moment almost made me a vegetarian.

I'm sure it made a lot of people a vegetarian but the way it's shot with the, yeah, the camera tilt and going in and out of black and white and like horror music playing. It's so that's one moment where I'm like, yeah, maybe the family is not the joke, but it's giving us a glimpse into, at least for people on the, you know, various coasts. It's giving you the glimpse into that like real, real hardy middle America feeling. Yeah.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah. So in episode one and they go from their shopping trip to this Shindig quote unquote the Fancy Shindig at their home. Yes. One of my favorite moments from the Shindig is when Paris says I'm going to miss all of you. It's like, who are these people?

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

These are not our close friends, you know?

 

Kirsten King

No, they're not her close friends at all. They're, you know, 30 extras and then maybe five people she actually knows. I don't know. Or maybe it was actually, it was, it is this interesting time of like, how much is produced and how much is real because I do think this time in reality television actually had more reality than, than we would even, you know, would even get close to getting now.

because her parents are there and they're kind of, they're talking about how they hope that this teaches Paris a sense of responsibility. So she might go on to like, you know, conquer the family empire someday.

 

Helen Grossman

Cathy Halton ends up becoming a reality TV person, right? Like she becomes a housewife.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

This is also training for her and she's in that, in that opening scene.

 

Kirsten King

because this launched Paris and Nicole.

 

Helen Grossman

So, yeah, just to get into the chronology a little bit. Paris Hilton was already a very famous socialite and model. Her childhood. She moved between L A and New York. But she was known as like a New York City socialite. And then, and she had known Nicole Ritchie who was Lionel Ritchie's daughter. since they were, you know, two years old or something, neither of them had really, broken out on their own.

You know, with the exception of being known in the tabloids for being famous and rich and neo babies, the babies and they Paris Hilton, this is sort of her first screen appearance. She goes on to make an album, she goes on to make movies.

 

Kirsten King

Stars are blind.

 

Helen Grossman

Obviously, she has like an illustrious career now that's sort of, re blossoming in this moment, which is really interesting. Nicole Ritchie, another really interesting trajectory right before this series was shot, she was actually arrested and sent to rehab. So she was sort of known as like a party girl and she had been arrested for heroin possession. Yeah. And something else, this was a, this was a brand for, this was a, she had already been cast on this show, but it was, it was

her real lunch too. And I honestly think she's a superstar, like I watch a show and I'm like, you're the real genius here. She's hilarious. She's so funny. You can tell that's a woman with like a real, real heart and a real sensitivity toward other people's. And Paris Hilton is like a little bit more detached from the reality of it.

 

Kirsten King

I think it's really interesting like they're dynamic, they play off each other so well. And also I think Paris Hilton's rise and downfall has been this character of like the, the dumb girl that says stupid things. And it's interesting to watch her rebrand that with like her documentary that came out in 2020. 0 my God, 21 2021. This is Paris where she, you know, takes ownership of the character she's played and she says I've been playing it for 13 years.

Like, I think that's really tricky though because if you're saying you knew what you were doing and you were playing a character for 13 years, what about all the other shit you've said? What about the homophobic shit? What about the N word? What about the anti Semitic shit? You've said she has been so problematic in that character that the idea of her being self aware, I think it actually digs her a deeper grave.

Whereas Nicole Ritchie does have empathy in this. Like you can, you can see when she's like, actually trying to do a good job on the farm and then when she realizes it's not good television and then does a bad job. Like you can see that she's in control of her narrative the whole time in a way that is so fascinating to watch.

 

Helen Grossman

She brings so much levity and energy to it. Paris's character. I do think that she had a character. I also think that she has like eight characters. I think you can actually tell by the tonality in her voice. Which character she's like, you know, like, I think that when she feels trapped inside the home and listen, like not to get astrological on it, but Paris is, she's an Aquarius.

Like you do not trap, you need to be free. So she has, you know, I think the absurdity of being 22 years old and being in someone's home and being told by the patriarch that she can't go hang out with friends at noon at the mall and that there's like a real moment of rage.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

And she has like this like really low voice, her being trapped in the house.

 

Kirsten King

That is such a Yeah, it's like, imagine imagine living in the house that she's lived in her entire life and having the accommodation and then she's sleeping on a pull out couch with her best friend in Arkansas. Like there's a real moment of what the fuck am I getting into? Like, there is no, to my knowledge, there's no hotel that they slept in during filming like they actually were with that family.

 

Helen Grossman

They lived in this family's home and in future seasons, they don't do it that way.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

I imagine it was because she was like, I'm never doing this again.

 

Helen Grossman

I think both of them were like, we can't do that. And so I think that like the family became such a focal point that I also wonder if the production company was like, no, we have to make the story, less about the family characters and more about sort of like who they meet along the way.

 

Kirsten King

The family of the first season is what everybody thinks of when they think of the simple life like that is the most iconic season in my mind. Like thinking about them going to the dairy farm and working there, thinking about them working at the drive through and not knowing how to make change for people like these are, it's, it's the most grounded and I think it has the best payoff, especially because the family, they do form a,

a genuine connection with them. And I think it again, like talking about bridging the gap in middle America and coastal elite. I think that was like an attempt to do that.

...

 

Helen Grossman

In episode three, the girls get a job at Sonic at the drive, the drive in. Yes. And they're given a variety of tasks. And I actually think that the two women who are, their managers are probably harder on them than any other managers they get for the rest.

 

Kirsten King

They really want them to do a good job. They're investing in their growth at Sonic.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

This is the stand out, this is a brand partnership with Sonic must have been, it must have been, it must have been.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah, because they do a variety of tasks from, you know, working the actually like making the orders to working at the drive through counter and then also like they roller skate things out to people too, they roller skate things out to people.

 

Helen Grossman

They talk to people.

 

Kirsten King

The most iconic is the sign that they change though. What does the sign say? I can't remember.

 

Helen Grossman

So the sign starts out saying United We Stand, which I love this transition. And I also, I feel like it's like the ultimate 2003 because that gives some context for when the show is filmed, which is early, which is like spring 2003 comes out on December 2nd. The Iraq war has just started.

 

Kirsten King

United. We stand says everything that we need to know about exactly this moment in time. Yeah.

 

Helen Grossman

So they take United, we stand and they turn it into half price anal salty Leaners. And then, I mean, it's just objectively funny, God and they move, they move the ladder so that the managers can't change the lettering on the sign. Perfect execution, perfect execution. When they, when the managers are like, why did you do this? Nicole says I'm not a good speller.

 

Kirsten King

Wow. That might be one of my favorite Nicole moments from the series. She is the mastermind. She is absolutely the mastermind of the show. And Paris is a sidekick which is not how it was always viewed, I think because of societal beauty, no bullshit. Like Nicole, Nicole also looking back, I remember there were so many jokes in the show

about her being the fat friend or like the chubby friend and looking back, I'm like this girl is tiny, tiny. It's such a, it is such a moment in time, both in beauty standards.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

And I think pointing out that the sign said United, we stand before it was changed to half price anal wiener dogs, an salty wieners, salty wieners.

 

Kirsten King

Excuse me. Wow. Just, I can imagine Americans watching that and feeling very offended that the sign was changed to that.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah, the sacred, the sacred Sonic sign. After they do the signed shenanigans, they get a signed punishment, which is they have to dress up like the sonic milkshakes in these giant milkshake suits and they just start flipping everyone off.

 

Kirsten King

Oh my God and the manager. So I, I can remember the like visceral madness of that manager and I used to work at a mini golf and ice cream shop and I had a manager like that for a while. So who just took it so seriously, you know, like, really took that leadership position as like a sign that they were a true leader and just ran with it and I think that their boss

at Sonic, it steps into that role quite strongly. And also there's probably a bit of like these people are here for a day and this is my life. So there's that anger there too.

 

Helen Grossman

I think that one of the things that always surprises me is like the mix of emotions. I feel when I watch the show because I feel when I originally watched it it was like, ha, like, look at these dumb girls.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah. I mean, II, I think that a same boat as you were when I first watched it. I really, really was like, oh, my God, these calls are so stupid. They don't know how to do, like, fast food stuff. Even I know how to do that and I'm 10 or 11, whatever.

 

Helen Grossman

They don't know what Walmart is like.

 

Kirsten King

I'm, yeah, I'm smarter than these two women. And then watching it back as an adult, you do realize, like, they are comedians, like they are comedians and they are really good at it. Even Nicole Ritchie hitting on guys in the drive through. Do you take baths together?

 

Helen Grossman

So funny. Are all your workers hot? Like you, like just the pure, oh, my shamelessness of it. The callousness of it.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

It's so, it's so funny.

 

Kirsten King

It's so funny. And also like the question to those, those two, the two men smushed in a truck if they take baths together, suggesting a level of homo eroticism that has not been introduced in the Arkansas town ever.

 

Helen Grossman

Oh, totally. I mean, they make two boys kiss each other on the lips.

 

Kirsten King

Yes. Yeah. They're really bringing Los Angeles and New York to Arkansas.

 

Helen Grossman

Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, there's even a moment where, like, Nicole talks about how watching men kiss turns her on and it's like such a shock. Even to Paris.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Paris is like, ew, don't say that no, Nicole is ahead of her time.

 

Kirsten King

She is ahead of her time, but she's so, she's so cool and so effortlessly cool and funny that she definitely feels like the star of the show. And you see in those moments where she's changing the sign, it's like Nicole looking at her goal and Paris looking at Nicole for directions and what to do like that feels like they, they're absolute dynamic.

 

Helen Grossman

Well, I feel like Paris really compartmentalizes the roles that she's playing. Like, and that's what I mean when I'm like, you're watching Paris Sulton Code switch when she goes from like, oh my God, I love it to being like this is so boring and you really, and then there are like shades in between of that that I feel are like character to quote unquote authentic Paris, whatever that means.

 

Kirsten King

And she also, when she genuinely does say something dumb, like what's a Walmart? Do they sell walls there? She once she realizes people are laughing at her, she then jumps on board to laugh at herself and digs her heels and like she knows when to do that in the family, the letting family.

I think they're really interesting because they're so genuine and actually wanting to teach Paris and Nicole about like the way they live their life, especially the mom is so so sweet and the son Braxton like we love, love Braxton. I wonder where he is now?

 

Helen Grossman

He's in law school. Oh, my God. Good for Braxton. Braxton. Braxton is doing really well and I think he in Paris, or at least an Instagram post from several years, years ago, she wrote that she was in touch with him and that it was when Curly had died.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

So grandpa, grandma.

 

Kirsten King

Oh, my God, grandma has killed the chicken. Yeah.

 

Helen Grossman

No, I agree. I mean, I think that that's one of the reasons why the point of view of the show is like the laughs and the gags are always on Paris and Nicole versus on the town that they've sort of invaded and the people that they come into contact with because it accentuates how crazy they are and how different they are.

But you think about this family and this patriarch in particular Albert imposing rules on these adult women. They really, you know, I don't know if they knew that that's what they were signing up for and I had a lot of sympathy for them.

 

Kirsten King

I mean, waking up at like 4 a.m. to go work at the farm and getting in trouble with your temporary de family. It, it's a lot for and they are. How old were they when they filmed this 2021 and 22? It is crazy because you view them as like teenagers and I think you view them as like you're thinking about the family unit for the wedding. I always thought they were around the side. They were, like, fully hitting, weren't they? Ok.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah, I'm joking about the free, some 15 year old. I wonder, you know, we're making out the lettings to be the moral, the morally. Exactly. Like they're the morally right side of the coin. That's the brief that production gave them was these girls are, you know, spoiled entitled L A girls and they've never worked a day in their life and you need to teach them about what it's like.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah, the letting family is united. We stand and Paris and Nicole are half off, you know. Exactly. Yeah. I think the, the idea of like them just exposing that family to, you know, even the idea of like, you know, bathing with your farmer, bro and homosexuality and all these things that like just did not exist or be talked about in that town. I think it's really interesting and somewhat powerful, but I would, I would be curious to know what was happening off screen as well and I'm sure

there were some comments like I'm sure there on both ends. I'm sure there's homophobic comments. I'm sure there's like a lot that even rewatching the whole show. I bet there's a lot that made the cut that like we would, we would win that. I remember the sons when they're talking about Paris and Nicole are describing them as

like dumb bimbo blondes or whatever, just very like misogynistic in that way. And, and that was stuff that we were, we were used to hearing and consuming all the time as women.

 

Helen Grossman

Like, that's the norm. I mean, you can't help but feel that had this taken place after 2016 that they would have been calling them cosmopolitan. You know, that there would be other coded language. the show is really a Bush era show. Definitely you could not send these two girls to Arkansas in 2008 after the election of Obama.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Or you would be, yeah, it just the divide between city.

 

Kirsten King

I think the evolution is like you have one end of the spectrum which is a show like this and then you have another end of the spectrum which is a show like queer eye, one has intentions to make people laugh and one has intentions to make people cry, but they're still doing the same like fish out of water like gay guys going into a small town and like, you know, revamping.

So I think it's the same side of the, of, you know, or a different side of the same coin. just how those things are executed and even 2008. Yeah, you, you probably wouldn't make this show or maybe, I don't know. I'm like, what would that look like now?

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

And the only thing I can compare it to is the current Queer Eye, what feels retrograde and what feels revolutionary still, you know, when you watch it back, like what feels revolutionary to you?

 

Kirsten King

I think if we're going retrograde or revolutionary for the show, I say revolutionary because of what it did for comedy and how people have mimicked that comedic format in some ways. Like I really, I think about Nathan Fielder and the rehearsal and you know, he's going and playing a father with this woman who, you know, wants to have a kid. I don't know if you've seen the show using a real woman kind of morally ambiguous casting there.

But I think Paris and Nicole walked so Nathan Fielder and other comedians could run, like, I think they're doing it in a more sophisticated way with better language now and, and perhaps better boundaries. But I think this is like the original type of reality television, like really a comedy that I'm trying, I really can't think of anything else in 2003.

That was as smart and funny as this. It feels revolutionary in that way and, and retrograde in some ways, like, maybe it couldn't happen, maybe they were saying problematic things at the time.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

But in terms of women in comedy pretty revolutionary that they're like, we know that you're making this the joke here, you're making the joke on us.

 

Helen Grossman

And what we're going to do is not only like, lean into that, but we're going to subvert it so that everyone here ends up sort of flabbergasted and we're going to do the joke on our own terms.

 

Kirsten King

If you're going to put us at this job and make us look stupid, then we're going to ditch the job and run across the street and roll around the grocery store. So, like, they had control of their own narrative in a way that is really, really hard to have on reality television. Totally.

 

Helen Grossman

Every time I rewatch it, I'm like, there's something really empowering about this, about walking into situations and recognizing that people are going to assume things about you and they keep getting told by everyone in town. Everyone thinks you're Bimbos, everyone thinks you are spoiled. And they also are like, if that's what you think of us, we'll play it.

We're not, we're not trying to prove you wrong. Like that's not why we're here and doing the hard work would have been proving them wrong, but it also would have been boring television. Totally different show. And what's the point of that? What are they learning from that? What are they learning from? Like sticking their hand up a cow's ass?

 

Kirsten King

Yeah. Yeah. That could have been a completely different show. Like it could have been Paris and Nicole go and do a great job in show Middle America. Its coastal elites are not dumb and don't think they're better than, you know, than you et cetera.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Or they could go and fuck shit up and have a good time and, you know, you can see that even though they're not having a good time because they are, you know, they don't, they don't want to be there, but they are having a good time because they're together and they're able to make light of most of the situations that they're in.

 

Kirsten King

I would love to know what the contract negotiations were like for season two because I'm sure after like, genuinely having to wake up at four in the morning and stick your hand in a cow's ass, they were like, we need some bound drink.

 

Helen Grossman

The second season is great.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

It's really, really, I haven't watched it in so long.

 

Kirsten King

Like this is the one that sticks out in my brain.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah, I mean, this is, this is iconic and by the second season, they're really like leaning into the character. So it loses some of the luster. You know, the first time that I rewatched this show after watching it in its original run in 2003 was actually in 2015, a business partner and I were really struggling to raise money and I constantly felt like people didn't take us seriously.

And we started rewatching this show together and that was when it first sort of dawned on me just how actually empowering they were like, you know, no one put the show on the air in 2003 to be like, here are your role models. But watching it back, I absolutely recognize and feel inspired by how, how they don't, they don't give a fuck.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah. There is a lot about Paris and Nicole that in this, you know, in the simple life season one that is Timeless. And it's funny that you said you rewatched it recently because I, I did a full rewatch of season one in 2021 when I was working for Amazon and I was doing social for their tiktok platform. And we were thinking about ways to, you know, what content did Amazon have that appeals to teens on tiktok.

And the stuff that performed the best was simple life clips because because they're iconic, it's subversive, it's smart. It's ahead of its time in some ways. And also I think, you know, there's such a nostalgia for the early two thousands right now and there's specifically such a nostalgia from teens for the early two thousands. I went back to my old high school to speak and you know what they're watching, they're watching one Tree Hill, they're watching the OC they're watching

all the shows we watched. And so it was really interesting to, you know, cut down these clips like the Walmart clip and the grandma cutting the chicken and all these things and put it on tiktok and have it like overperform and all the comments and be like what is this show I need to watch? Like, it's still, it's still iconic. And, and that's why it's not retrograde. Yeah,

 

Helen Grossman

there's a shift in the middle of the season from the focus being on Paris and Nicole and the sort of odd jobs that they're doing to their interest in the boys and how they, like, they're like, obsessed with the boys in this town and they each get like boyfriends or like to like, it's like a Stockholm syndrome for them.

 

Kirsten King

Like what is happening? Because they are just, they genuinely get crushes on me or maybe not genuinely, maybe again, it's them being the masterminds of their own destiny.

 

Helen Grossman

Well, they keep saying the guys are our only escape. The guys are our only escape. Like all we do is work and hang out with this family. And the only thing we have to escape is, is having a little crush on the guys.

 

Kirsten King

I think the first four episodes are that true. Fish out of water. And then the, you know, the last four are more like the temperature rising on a frog boiling where they're just like starting to actually acclimate with the place they are because they were truly there for, I think what a 30 days straight.

 

Helen Grossman

And it's interesting that there's this conversation now and this sort of obsession with neo babies, like we said at the beginning, these are some of the original neo babies and they proudly go into this experience. He's saying they've never had a job before.

 

Kirsten King

You know, the ultimate, I think Nepo Babies could really take a page out of Paris and Nicole's book in terms of owning the fact that they're neo babies because no one is mad at Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie for being Nebo babies. No one is like because they embrace the fact that they're privileged and that they've had a path carved out from them for a very young age. So I think that would be something that like Nevo babies today could really learn from because it's like Jesus Christ,

no one's mad at you if you just acknowledge it and if you just poke fun at it and you say like, yeah, this is, you know, my great great grandfather was Carlton Hilton. Like that's Yeah, of course, you're living in a big house and of course, you know, you're more privileged than other people. I think that Nele babies today are too caught up trying to hide the fact that they're Nele babies and trying to be like I worked for everything I had.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

You know, it's like, OK, yeah, like there's no defense, there's no defensiveness about it.

 

Kirsten King

There's no defensiveness. It's an embracement of the Nepo baby. It is a warm, warm hug to being a Neo baby and it's a proud Neo baby banner flying the whole time.

 

Helen Grossman

This show couldn't be made with anyone other than Neo baby.

 

Kirsten King

It has to be a neo baby because it also makes, I think like you made a really good point earlier of like we're laughing, you know, were laughing at their sort of ignorance. And I think if it was someone more grounded that was a coastal elite, you wouldn't get that elevated, like almost satirical feeling to the comedy because they are just so out of touch.

And so in a different world, they are so 1%, they're not even, they're just not near 99% of America because they are in the 1%. Like, not many people can relate to the lives that they, they've had.

 

Helen Grossman

We're actually not getting them in a lot of scenarios of their quote unquote real life. Like we're not getting that perspective of what their Monday through Friday is like when they're back at home, living in L A or New York or whatever. And, you know, when at the same time we have Tommy Hilfiger's daughter, Ali and her friend Jamie who are rich girls of the Upper East side and rich girls.

And it's truly just a fly on the wall of them going shopping every episode and it's so unreliable, you know, and it's so there's of course a perverse fascination with it, but it's so inaccessible.

 

Kirsten King

It's almost boring. I feel that way when I watch the Kardashians, I'm like, this is incredibly boring. Like I want to see the hijinks. I want to see the drama I want to see you interacting with real people because in shows like that, that are like slice of life, rich person. It's just fucking boring. It's boring. It's like, I don't, I'm not interested in what they're doing all day. I'm not interested in the lunch where you talk about what you're going to wear to the next event and then

you get to the event and then you talk about what you wore to the event. Like that feels like the cycle of the Kardashians and probably the cycle of rich girls. And I think it is smart that, you know, we get 10 minutes of that in this opening episode. And then the rest of the pilot is just

...

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

let's talk about the fashion icon and it's totally back.

 

Kirsten King

Like everything they wore in the show, people are selling on depop right now like it is, it is so, so back and yeah, I mean, I remember like the jean flared skirts. I remember having a lot of those and like feeling very, very Nicole richie, like sexy in those. Oh my God.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

The low waisted pants for Paris never seen pants lower than the ones on Paris in the show.

 

Kirsten King

Yeah, it's really like you're getting the v of your body and it's very low. It also, it's funny to know that Nicole was in rehab for heroin before because this is really heroin chic era. This is, this is skinny girl eating disorder. Fashion time. This is, let's show our 0% body fat stomachs.

 

Helen Grossman

The thing is like Pa Sulton, famously signed to Donald Trump's model management company at the time. She was just this icon of like, millennium Y UK fashion. Like would Von Dutch hats have happened without Paris Hilton?

 

Kirsten King

Absolutely not. No, absolutely not. And thinking about how Nicole was also like a fashion trend setter but didn't get the credit for it because she was a different body size.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

And now looking at how her, you know, career has really been cemented in fashion, it's become, you know, her entire brand identities and there's an episode where they're meeting with the quilts ladies and she's telling her grandson are single, but she keeps saying like it's squares, like do something different, like put cigarette burns in it.

 

Kirsten King

She has a fashion point of view. She has a point of view. Absolutely does. She doesn't want squares, she wants cigarette burns and ribs. She wants to be, you know, she wants to be next in fashion.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

She wants to be, she wants to be on making the cut.

 

Helen Grossman

She will be 20 years later, right?

 

Kirsten King

Oh my God. No, but the, the fashion of this time was so I remember like, I, I really, really just, there were so many pieces of clothing. I wanted a dutch hat. I wanted a juicy sweat suit. I wanted all of these things that were considered luxury items, but totally like Von Dutch. What, like how is like, how you're right. That would not have taken off without Paris. They can thank her for that.

 

Helen Grossman

So I just looked up how tall is Peril? And she's only 57. She looks like 6 ft tall. She looks like a 6 ft tall. Alien. Like she's so tall. She's a string bean, just the longest torso, really long legs.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Like, I don't know, because her pants are sitting just above her clip basically. Like they are so low, so low and then her shirts are so small.

 

Kirsten King

So of course, her proportions of skinny, I thought she was 7 ft tall proportions look wild. It is like that time in fashion I think was the most cruel and unforgiving time in fashion because nobody's body looks good in that except Paracel and our body doesn't look good in that. By the way, it's just we were conditioned to believe that that is what looked good.

When I think of their style. I do think of this, the Von Dutch position just to the side just to the side. And then the tank tops, the thick belts. Like I, I really, I do, I think Nicole Ritchie's style like sticks out for me in the show almost more than Paris because Paris it is so unattainable because it's so tethered to her body type that like Nicole's is actually like, OK, I could make that probably what the majority of us look like.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and which is why it was so damaging that she was painted as like the chubby friend. Because then you realize like, fuck, am I the chubby friend? But also she's the coolest part of the show. So it's like, yeah, why not?

...

 

Helen Grossman

This, this show is, it's, I feel like it really stands on any rewatch.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Like I truly like laughed out loud so many times it's a cultural artifact that is both still feels fresh but also is so so dated in such a fun way.

 

Kirsten King

Like I think it's the perfect mix of nostalgia. But also, as you said, we can watch her along with them and like relate to them more and root for them and, and really appreciate the, the sense of control they have in their comedy and just how they're, you know, presenting themselves to the world.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah, and watch it back with the perspective and the recognition of perhaps what's not being show. What are the, what are the omissions here? Why would it be to framing? Right?

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

Because the framing was clearly this family is they are doing a good job and there's genuine moments between them and Paris and Nicole and I think that, that they really do bond.

 

Kirsten King

I think if the show was made today, as we said, that would be the show, the genuine moments bridging the gap rather than laughing at the gap.

 

Helen Grossman

What are your loves it?

 

Kirsten King

What do we love, loves it. Of the simple life. I think my loves it. Are Braxton loves it. Grandma, grandma Curly loves it. I think, suggesting the two men in the truck take a bath together loves it. Absolutely. And then I love the Sonic sign change.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah, I love, I loves Nicole. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think, I think that she's like a real comedic wizard. Absolutely. And I also think that she is so good at defusing tension. She makes a really excellent TV, reality TV character. For that reason. I love in one of the last episodes, Kathy Hilton sends the girl's Chinch in

which is an iconic Beverly Hills fusion restaurant. They have the one of the best Chinese chicken salads in town. Yeah, it's so good. There's only one left. It's in studio.

 

Kirsten King

We're going to go great.

 

Helen Grossman, Kirsten King

We're gonna have to go and get the Chinese chicken salad so good.

 

Helen Grossman

so that, that for me is a real nostalgic thing watching it because we used to go to a lot. and I, I love watching it and recognizing, being able to like, differentiate all of the masks that Paris is putting on simultaneous to a person.

 

Kirsten King

I think knowing how curated and calculated she is really is a great, great context to have on the Rewatch.

 

Helen Grossman

Yeah. And I think my greatest loves is, is feeling inspired to look at a world that is predisposed to assume something about you or that is, that looks at you in a certain way and to defy it with humor.

 

Kirsten King

Absolutely. They owned their narrative in a time that women didn't really have ownership over themselves.

 

Helen Grossman

They easily could have been put into the Jessica Simpson.

 

Kirsten King

Absolutely. I think that's like the difference in how they both handled it. Not to, not to blame Jessica Simpson. I think she, you know, she also has like a borderline abusive husband that she's, you know, filming the show with. But I think it's like the lottery they had and having each other.

It really makes the show special. I love, I love how much they own their narrative. I think it's, it's, it's iconic. Honestly. Simple life. That's hot, that's how I feel about it. I still feel it's hot. Loves, it, loves it. Thank you.

 

Helen Grossman

Thank you again.

 

Kirsten King

Thank you for having me.

...

 

Helen Grossman

So it wouldn't be fair to call Paris Hilton the icon of 2003 without acknowledging that there was another icon who that year broke out on her own and released her first solo album, Beyonce, unlike Paris whose fame has had its ebbs and flows. Beyonce's trajectory has only skyrocketed from her first post, Destiny's Child effort Dangerously in Love was released on June 24th 2003.

Beyonce was the executive producer of the album and co-wrote a majority of the songs on it. The album contains numerous bangers, including most notably Crazy In Love. Baby boy and me myself and I, this week's song of the week is Crazy In Love. Beyonce's breakout single from her breakout solo album. Thanks again to Kirsten for joining me to discuss the simple life. If you have thoughts or comments on the simple life, you can send us an email at class of 03 pod at gmail dot com or DM Me on

Instagram at class of 03 pod. If you like this episode, please rate it and review it. We really appreciate you. Class of 03 is written produced and hosted by me, Helen Grossman. Our theme music is by Luke Schwartz and Evan Joseph of Sawtooth and our show art is by Maddie Herbert of Dame Studio. Thanks and see you next time. Class dismissed.